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Are you talking about the music that sounds like it should be in a Marvel film during the sex scene? Because that was inspired.

Been waiting for this! I'm sure I'll have more thoughts soon, but for now: Congrats!

(Disco Elysium) Me whenever I'm around Khenbish and he does his boyfriend face:

How dare you

Asterion showing up to help Khenbish with archery while dressed like this was a mistake.

Good. He can't fight a two-front war forever or dismiss it as "anime trash". 

Oh. And I'm supposed to say "Congratulations". 

Congratulations!

Do you think Minoh would like Disco Elysium? Asking for no reason in particular.

Luke mouthing off to Kota and losing would be fun. Payback for the kanji. Khenbish could train Kota (either as a coworker for tending the lounge or out of annoyance at Luke for how he runs things) and it would be cute.

Khenbish and Robert for Robert's sass.

Robert and Themba for Robert's sass.

Luke and Argos because you gotta have a snake and eagle fight.

Storm and Asterion for bonding. 

You and Wolf because man's best fren needs his daily exercise or he'll start getting sassy and we already have Robert intentionally using his general quietness as a means of scaring others with what reads to them as indecipherable sarcasm. 

In general: Robert.

I wonder if there will be new music tracks.

You're correct! I don't often replay that part, so I forgot you gave him the wine before meeting Argos. He materializes the wine, drinks it at the same time Hestia's flame is kicking in and then the next time you see him he is half-healed.

Does Asterion know this? He offers the wine to you at one point before he drinks any himself.

In the meantime, you can find many instances of NSFW Mino content on the Twitter account!

beef up urself 1st

I don't think it's necessarily a bad reputation. It's just that their goals aren't often so lofty or complex. Like the Lagoon Lounge series isn't written particularly well, has a lot of elements I wish weren't in it, and focuses more on character drama and sex than anything else. Despite that, Lagoon Lounge 3 made me feel more like shit for a decision than any VN I've read. It's more that the consistency tends to be lacking and sometimes things go on weird tangents. Mino is hyperfocused on the story it is trying to tell and its many themes are used to complement and expand on each other.

Yeah, it's very specific unless you're Tricky.

I agree with the tapir/baku. I don't know that Matías would come up with it on his own, nor do I think the act of eating dreams in itself is enough, but I think Robert giving him the suggestion and teaming up to help Asterion from multiple fronts would be a good way to handle it. 

Having someone that could communicate with the narrator would also be helpful, be it the MC or someone who is acting as a conduit. Basically a team effort to show Asterion how many people care while also being realistic about how many more lifetime worths of experience he has than anyone else in the hotel.

Speedrunner is S-Tier for the Moo necklace alone, let alone scaring the shit of Nikos by doing nothing.  Also The Anthill and "No homo" on top of the fucking embarrassing shit you say if you choose Kota to tend the lounge. Incredible stuff.

I'd say Leader is the most lacking in this build. The benefit you mentioned isn't available yet, but it's certainly pointing to being top tier. In that sense, Art is S-Tier for this build. Not only do you get to pick between Wolf and Themba (because who isn't picking the dreamboat referred to as Khenbish?) but you get some insight into the inspiration behind Mino with his unique conversations about books Asterion wants to order.

Math(s) has Asterion at his horniest, which is hilarious to me. 

Humanities has some of the most reassuring dialogue with Asterion. Their unique conversations about ethics and how the world has changed is incredibly sweet. For that alone, it's worth it. 

It's why I chose Humanities for doing the Ruthless Master route. :)

Tech I care least about because all programmers know how to do is throw penis all over their code. Good ability, though.

The more you know the game and how its systems work, the more you can manage to do in a single run. However, nanoff stated in a Q&A that he disliked how hyper managed the Persona series is to achieve everything in a single play so they've specifically designed it so you can't do that. It's got a different feeling than many VNs that have divergent content as it's usually tied to a route, but here it is only your stats and decisions that affect these.

Specifics (Spoilers)

Managing the danger system and getting Robert ASAP go a long way if you want to up your resources. As of this build, choosing art and grabbing Wolf allows for the most resources to complete projects, however choosing Wolf means you lose out on having both Khenbish and Themba at the drinking game, which is the most fun way to experience that scene. 

There's always going to be a compromise and so you can either worry about that or go at your own pace. The lack of satisfaction is also a major theme of the game but told through a mechanic. Time is a constant factor, whether it's through repetition or the knowledge that you're missing something had you made choices that are different. The most satisfying moment was after multiple playthroughs, unlocking meaningful new dialogue in Chapter 18 by playing my part instead of doing what I would normally do instinctually. There's a lot of mystery just under the surface that you may miss by only min-maxing the ideal route. 

I got cthonic (gray) on my leader playthrough, so I don't think it's tied to that. Or if it is, it's not the sole factor.

Have you played Alen's path at all during the split? If not, I'd check it out for a little affection with Jymsar. :P

An elbow in the chest is love for Jymsar.

Ramblings always welcome. I'm especially curious about what you think about Pervader. The more I've let it sit, the more I really love it.

[Major Echo Spoilers] 

|Don't even skim Tazogor lmao|

I think this is going to come down to a difference in what you want to prioritize. The way I listed is based on having a full understanding of the story at the expense of learning some twists early, which I think the writing is more than strong enough to withstand. Most of Flynn and Jenna's routes were written post-TJ's ending so I feel even more comfortable about that.

The thing I mention with TJ is everything post car crash. TJ can't undo his seatbelt and almost drowns. Chase eventually saves him, but he immediately asks Chase about Sydney. Chase ignores him. From that point on he can't bring himself to talk to Chase. He just stares at him like he's not even human. Sam brings it up while they're in Kudzu's trailer, talking about how water was different from that point on. How he understood the fear others felt. However, all of this is written so that you can misconstrue it as this group mourning a friend and the trauma from it rather than the direct action that Chase took. Also, you miss out on what is objectively the funniest joke in Echo.

https://twitter.com/burner_flynn/status/1400941006363631616?t=YOWaw_rV-1tIC1RWf1...

Leo's route shifts the most depending on what knowledge you have. There's everything with TJ. This even shows up before the car crash, as Chase will have throwaway lines about how cute TJ is and in general has a weird protectiveness about him. (The shift in Flynn's route only happens when TJ is directly confronted.) There's the knowledge that Chase has secretly been flirting with Leo over texts that he deletes out of guilt. There's the tulpa Leo created, who is constantly threatening Chase and likely appears in front of Duke to get Chase killed. There's everything to do with Sam, which has a very different feeling if you've read The Smoke Room. And this is more of a personal theory, but I think that the Flynn that saves Chase is the cursed one. Sam at first sees red eyes and thinks it's a creature of the mines. Only after Sam recognizes him as Flynn does the scene shift and Flynn starts existing, with no red eyes to be seen. When Chase asks him how he knew about the mines he gives a very basic non-answer. With how many timeline shenanigans that exist within Echo, I really feel like Leo's is the true ending to this specific cast. That's why I suggest reading it a second time after finishing it once. There are so many small details that come together.

The reason I say Flynn and then Jenna is because of the reveal of the wendigo at the end of Flynn's route. That way when it shows up in Jenna's, you have a lot more context for it. There's a lot of emotion behind moments like it starting at Flynn when Jenna is trying to save Heather from herself and the town, or when Chase calls it Jenna's guardian angel after it saves them from Brian. Instead of being just a freaky moment, it's incredibly cathartic. Flynn has always been one of the most caring characters so his control of the town to instead save people is a moment of triumph after an ending that is very cruel.

Chase is complicated. He's a liar and he has no problem withholding things from even himself, like the texting. However, that texting confrontation is one of the most revealing moments. Far more so than that he killed Sydney. At that moment, he feels guilt, which shocks Sam into saying something along the lines of, "this is what you feel guilty about?" As he says when he's free of Sam in Flynn's route, he's glad he killed Sydney. That means he is not the one causing everything that's happening in Echo. It's actually mostly Flynn and (to a lesser extent) Leo. It's why killing Flynn delays the madness, as his guilt is cut off. It might have ended because he realized Chase did it and decided he wanted to live more than kill, but we can't know for sure. Either way, with Flynn either killed or changed, things shift. So Chase is more of a catalyst for others. I have to wonder if Chase being affected in TJ's route is because he's confused as to why TJ is doing this, since in his mind, killing Sydney was the right thing to do.

All of this is to say that despite Chase being an unreliable narrator, his motivations for doing so aren't really tied to anything deeper than basic teenage shit. It's not sinister in nature. If you don't go along with Flynn in the club, you find out Chase hasn't slept with anyone since leaving Leo, so Leo is still the only person he's been with. Chase is extremely sheltered and an awkward as fuck person. I think he should feel guilty about what he did and why Jenna's route is a little too easy for me, but it's better for the town if it's seen as a good thing so everyone can accept Sydney's death and move on. That's why I prefer Leo's ending. People move on, but nothing is washed over. TJ finally understands the weight of what happened and Chase is with someone who can help him, but is also someone Chase can protect, fulfilling both of his needs. Leo has finally taken off the damn anchor and rejects giving Chase his new number. (Again, more meaningful knowing what Chase was doing in secret.)

I'll say that Leo's route is also the one that is most directly linked with Adastra. The dream when Chase is hit by Duke has text that is almost word for word used in Adastra when describing The Other. I agree that Leo's feels the most standalone, but I really think it benefits more than any other from being read a second time.

(This was a lot so sorry if some of my thoughts are kind of scattered!)

I think Carl and TJ are fairly interchangeable as first plays. The problem I have with saying to do Leo before TJ is that Leo's has major emotional resolutions to TJ's route. And Flynn before Jenna also helps deliver an emotional climax to the characters. Jenna's route has the most closure out of all, although Leo's feels far more realistic. I personally started with Carl's but I've had people bounce off because of how they felt about his story. It's one of the weaker stories despite having some of the most lore in it. 

I've played through a couple times so I've seen the added context, and I find the ideal route to be Carl - TJ - Leo/Route 65 (Flynn) - Flynn - Jenna - Route 65 (TJ route) - Leo. But considering how much that is and how people can bounce off Carl, I tend to compromise and say TJ-Leo/65-Carl-Flynn-Jenna. 

Starting with TJ is usually a good first choice. Flynn, the lizard, is easily my favorite character, but his story is probably better as one of the last two, just because of how many revelations it has that may not make full sense without context from the others. Without spoiling anything, at the very least I would read Leo's (the wolf) story before Flynn's. Unlike a lot of VNs with multiple character routes, they're all unique stories while also each containing major revelations for the overall mystery.

Yay! I'm 50/50 on the prolly, but it does stand out and is often cute.

I'd definitely suggest Pervader next. It's extremely promising and I'm going to assume by your dragon that you like magic. :P It does an amazing job selling you on its magic system and world, as well as just being utterly gorgeous. I adore Echo. It's still my second favorite VN, but it's a lot. Hopefully, it's not too much for you. Luckily both other stories in its universe go down a bit smoother and the finale of Jenna's route is a satisfying palate cleanser.

Oh hi!

I don't think it needs to be a priority if you've got other things you're working on, but it just stands out as the "easiest" barrier of entry to fix. I use quotes because it's a lot of work to go back in and coordinate what the expressions should be, even if they already exist. I do think it'll work wonders for someone just starting. Like there's so much that makes the work special and it's one of the few areas that reads "still in development" when the rest absolutely does not.

Anyway, thanks for a wonderful weekend experience. It captured the spirit of traveling extremely well and was something I've needed for a while. I guess I should hit up the discord at some point. I'm Feign on there. (I somehow went from everything cue5c to like 5 different usernames over a year lol.)

Yep. I wanted to play Fuga: Melodies of Steel but found out it was part of a series. I actually had Solatorobo but hadn't really played it so I figured I'd go through that first, even if it's not necessary for understanding the story of Fuga. 

And god, yeah, I dislike about 3/4 of the character designs. So many look like slightly melted humans wearing cat ears. This game has made it very apparent I'm not a huge fan of animal characters with human hair. It can be done well and Toby Fox is fairly good at finding the right balance, but god it looks jarring here. That's part of why I love these two dogs. They're not obnoxiously overdesigned and their hair doesn't clash with their fur.

The story isn't great. I'm maybe 2/3 done and I just got a big revelation that I probably would have appreciated more when the game first came out. It all feels fairly Xenoblade-lite. The dialogue is kind of a mess, too, but it has moments and it's gotten better the more I play the game. Some of the sidequest character interactions feel like Gravity Rush and in that way, it's a very comfortable game. Still, even if the story isn't hitting the notes it wants to, you can tell how inspired the world-building is. As you said, the backgrounds are incredible and tell more story than the writing could. I kind of like that they don't call attention to how weird some of it is. Basset is probably my favorite because of that:

It's an orphanage built on the decay of military weapons and the hermit crabs you fish wear warships instead of shells. Some of the worlds hit Final Fantasy 9 levels of charm, which is a feat few games manage. I wish the characters lived up to that game, but hey, I'll take what I can get. At least Paper Mario: The Origami King hit some of those highs.

Interesting you bring up the tetris-like upgrade system. It's something a lot of DS games use and I'm really fond of it, but I've found most don't feel that way. Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days is another game that uses it and it would be my favorite Kingdom Hearts game if not for the awful stealth missions it sometimes throws at you. I love how level-ups are tied to it, so you have to choose what to prioritize. It's a similar thing in Solatorobo, but with how simple the gameplay is it doesn't have quite the same impact.

Excuse the terrible and jittery gif, but I just need to explain how pleasantly jarring it was to play a game that normally looks like this:

Only for some environmental artist to decide to show off some characters in the foreground on this 256x192 pixel screen so we could fully soak in all the details of this:

God bless you, unsung hero of CyberConnect2, and god bless Pickaxe Street.

Yeah, I think you're spot on. I'm going to shamelessly repost what I wrote in another thread that's focused on the tablets, because I hadn't connected a lot of specifics that you've found. 

I've been waiting to read the tablets until I collected all of them. Having done so, I think it does indeed point to his thread being restored. 

This is all my interpretation based on the tablets and the ruthless route, but it seems Asterion was given two options to escape. The first would be to take freedom for himself given to him by those who pitied him or regretted their actions. The second would be to right the wrong he was accused of by actually fighting an opponent who wanted to defeat him. The result wouldn't matter, but he absolutely could not back down. However, he would need enough freedom from a master in order to fulfill this, which is why he's never been able to until now. He needed to stay a prisoner of a labyrinth in order to gain freedom and have his ember rekindled from nothing, essentially, and the rules were created to stop that from happening.

I think Poseidon's gift, which relates to what he sees as a moment of weakness when he questions whether he should escape by sea, is a backdoor. A failsafe. I also think the master situation is a cruel repurposing of his refusal to leave without permission from Laomedon, along with his eventual crime.

Your analysis of the specific meanings is great and it's making a lot of things click that I hadn't caught on to. 

I don't even think it necessarily feels like it's written for adults. It's just set in a fantasy world and commits to fully exploring what that means instead of using it as window dressing to pander. It's the exact reason I ended up loving Minotaur Hotel so much. Like I adore Adastra. I think its world-building is extremely interesting and everything to do with The Parents is cosmic horror in the best way. But it also has scenes where Amicus has sex with an ambassador to save the MC's life and you walk in thinking it's cheating but not before watching the whole scene play out. It's written for a specific audience, rather than written for the story it's trying to tell. (It does mostly work in context, so it's better than a lot in blending the pandering.) We haven't even started a relationship in Pervader and it's so much better for it. 

I also think the more subtle expressions aren't a bad thing for this story. Especially with Jymsar needing to warm up to you. It works and helps make his arc feel special. It's more that it took multiple hours for Alen to get a second expression despite him having a plethora of them already done. If you're just starting it may give a false impression about how much work has been put into it. It stands out in scenes like the jail cell where it's talking about Alen being worried about your wounds and it's that static image of him smiling. Admittedly the side characters mostly only having a single expression is noticeable, but it's also a case of being understandable because the effort that would normally go into that has been spent on backgrounds instead, which is where Pervader truly stands out. Echo didn't add a lot of side character expressions until multiple years into its development, so that could always be done later as a finishing touch. 

The simulacrums were great. We have, of course, new background art not counting CG's. A little bit more of the dreamer. Elden Ring? Eldon Brooch.  A wonderful send off to Jonah.

Final verdict: amazing VN. Wondering why no one recommended this to me on their itch page. 

But for real, my only suggestions: I think updating the Alen scenes with multiple sprite expressions in the beginning of the game would be beneficial. It takes until Jymsar shows up to get a character with more than one sprite. Alen has a lot of sprites to choose from, and you could limit it to a few basic ones like with Jyms, who takes forever to get his first smiling sprite. It just doesn't show off what 90% of the experience is actually like, instead seeming overly static despite the damn strong artwork. It also would probably be good to replace the one or two photo backgrounds that are right outside at the start of the game since that never happens again. But since I started with Version 11, that could be happening and I have no point of reference!

But yeah, seriously amazing with what's there with so much promise. The foreshadowing is strong. (The off-hand witch comment suddenly being referenced) I'm so glad I got to experience this. It really is unique in the genre.

Okay, sleep time.

No dreaming, but god, Alen's route was amazing. Love a cool white and blue mountaintop atmosphere. The architecture was great. Severin was hot and taught Reamus how to go green. Plus we got to lean on Alen. (Who I keep mistyping as Anel, thanks Giga.) 

Was totally on board with Drobeta until the memory thing and now I am very suspicious of her. Like, honestly, I think it would be kind of cool if someone could read my mind and I knew. We could have secret conversations and if they seemed upset I could ask them directly with no one noticing to see if I should help. Like that person has probably heard it all so I don't thing I would mind. Just... Man, I'm scared Drobeta is going to use his memories to find Jyms. Also we have the conversation with Alen after she does the memory trade and I don't like the timing, even if it's ultimately nothing.

(Also the capitol city lake looks suspiciously like a heart with blue veins coming out of it. I'm just saying.)

Glad to be caught up. Happy to understand what that horrifying nanoff star trek cats picture was about months later. Very excited for the continuing adventures of Anel and Ysamar.

Time for simulacrum. Which apparently stars my boy Jonah finally getting some time with Reamus. Very, very up for that.

Ooookay, finished Jymsar's route. He's grown on me quite a bit and is currently my favorite character. I don't think we've hugged yet and I really want us to simply hug. Really liked Everwind, too. I'm always 50/50 on the player character, but I love Reamus. He has an interesting story and god I want to learn more about the dream spirit. The lore in the whole story is really interesting. I suppose more may happen in Elysium since that was apparently the last 3 updates of content, but we'll see. Build 12 seems like it'll be super spicy if that's the convergence line. 

Again, can't get over how many damn backgrounds there are. The way things are written don't stick with me too much. Like there aren't sentences that just knock the air out of me. However, this has managed to really feel like an adventure and is utterly transportive. The imagery in the writing paired with the many different backgrounds between each destination really sell the scope of the world. Everything feels lived in and tangible. It's just an astonishingly polished presentation and absolutely unique in the world of VNs. It deserves way more success than it currently has, but it's not as far along as I originally thought so I have no doubt the audience will come as relationships start happening and the stakes keep rising. 

On to Alen's route and then the simulacrum.

ETA: Of course giving Jymsar a hug is the first thing that fucking happens if you choose to join Alen lmao. But also fuck yeah! About time.

Also I keep calling Jymsar "Ysamar." I should really just call him Jyms.

Pervader Thought Thread

(Spoilers!)

I'm going to use this space to post my thoughts on Pervader, so just avoid this comment chain and you should be fine.

I will have more detailed thoughts later, but I need to just say christ, GigaSaddle. These backgrounds are breathtaking and constantly changing.  I am about to get to the Sanctuary and it's just putting me in a similar state to Reamus. 

I like the characters so far. I was a little worried at first since Alen seemed to be a major character but he had the same sprite for hours, while Jymsar had multiple unique expressions. However, the day after we got past the small village with the husky spy, suddenly Alen got all those unique expressions. 

So far the story is fairly laid back, but I really enjoy the vibe. There's not too much music it seems, but the tracks have ended up being perfect for the mood of this story. I can't wait to read more. GigaSaddle's doing an excellent job at making me feel like I'm performing the magic and that's not an easy task.

And yeah, Alen is hot. Jymsar is growing on me. He put on his shiny green jacket and I may have swooned a bit. Matte black and reflective jewel green is a good combo, what can I say? Alen is hiding nothing from the world with those pants, but I mean... I can't blame him. Jonah was the hottest, though. I hope he comes back at some point, but I can move on now that Alen is moving around inside of us. Magically. With his light. Look, it's not weird, okay! 

ANYWAY. 

I do really hope we can get Jymsar to use magic and stop drinking his vervain so we can go inside him too. "I luminously entered da boy" lmao. Also, I know it's not the vampire diaries anti-magic flower and is etheline or something, but magic sapping flowers will always be vervain for me.

Alen is staring at me on my TV while writing this. It's very intense.

That's a monkey's paw waiting to happen on the speedrunner route. 

oh god, there's even a phone in Minotaur Hotel. Is Nikos Kheness's* dad? Is that why Lucas has a rope snake?? I want to stop but it keeps getting dark, darker, yet darker. Nanoff, WHY?

*Also known as a Snake-a Kheness's. That's a bad joke but I'm not erasing it.

Is Khenbish the Ness from Earthbound after growing up?